32: How Shame affects your sales and messaging - with Sheridan Ruth

Shame sits in the body and affects everything - our self worth, our ability to be seen, our ability to express, our ability to create, and ultimately our ability to 'be'.

In this in-depth interview with Sheridan Ruth,  Integrative Somatic Trauma Therapist, we look at how shame affects the sales process, our messaging, and our marketing, keeping us small and feeling as if we are 'unworthy' or 'less' than everyone else. It can also appear as that quiet voice of imposter syndrome. 

Addressing shame and learning to love all aspects of where we have come from and where we have been is the first step in our journey to complete and authentic self-expression - both in life and in business.

Nervous System Training on HOW to heal shame: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sheridan-ruth/episodes/84-4-Tangible--Effective-Ways-to-Heal-Shame-Financial-Freedom-to-Increase-Income-and-Decrease-Anxiety-for-Entrepreneurs-e2fq3qf

Meet Sheridan
Certified as an Integrative Somatic Trauma Therapist and Yoga therapist, with more than 350 happy clients under my belt, I know that while there are a lot of 'trauma-informed' and 'body-based practitioner' coaches in the industry, none of them do it by merging body-based tools, the nervous system AND business strategy. 

Visit her website: https://sheridanruth.com/?utm_source=quantumcopy&utm_medium=quantumcopy

Just feel like hanging out?

Come say hi to me on Instagram @merakimessaging or take a peek at my website for more information on our website copywriting, sales funnels, business energetics coaching programs (and so much more): https://merakimessaging.com/

Click here to book your free clarity call anytime!

Transcript

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Welcome back to Quantum Copy Cafe and in the studio today we have someone that I am very excited to introduce to you. She is a trauma specialist and we are going to be focusing today on the whole concept of shame and shame is a big topic that oftentimes steps into the sales process without us even realizing it. Sometimes it's even in the driver's seat and we aren't even aware of it, but it really stops us from. Manifesting the goals and the dreams that we have for our life, for our business. And it's a really important conversation to have because it's something that we need to, as conscious business owners, as creatives, as coaches face, right? Especially if you have all these big dreams for your life, for your business, and you really are wanting to quantum leap in your sales and your marketing and your visibility, and even in your own. Growth and your own evolution. It's really important to look at this concept of sales. Welcome to Quantum Copy Cafe, the messaging and marketing podcast with a bit of energetic flair. If you are ready to ramp up your messaging and start telling a story that feels raw, organic and embodied, then you are in the right place. Hey, I'm Lyra, also known as Kerry. Five years ago, I walked out of a traumatic separation to start my own business. I desired the freedom and independence to manage my time. And since then I've risen from strength to strength, from wife to mother, to profitable business owner. I've seen firsthand what it takes to scale your business to seven figures, even as a solopreneur. It is my passion and purpose to help you create a brand that feels natural and in line with your life and your dreams. I'm I'm here to help you make more money with your story, without compromising on sole. Because your business has its own energetic blueprint, and its own way of showing up in the world. It is encoded to be different, and I'm here to show you how. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Sheridan. And I don't know if you want to start by telling us a little bit more about yourself. Yeah. Hi everyone. Um, wonderful. Thank you for having me. I'm going to get right in and give you basically who I am and why I'm qualified to talk about this. I think that You know, my name is Sheridan, and I am trained as a trauma therapist. I'm trained as a yoga therapist. I've been working with individuals, basic, you know, a bit long story short, kind of helping them heal trauma or heal anxiety or heal OCD or, um, have better relationships or feel more confident with themselves and their bodies for the future. Like about seven years or so, but my journey really began, you know, when I was seven years old, I lost all of my hair. I have something called alopecia universalis. I have not a single hair on my head and it was really traumatic for me. It was very difficult. I then ended up in abusive relationship and I'm not going to go into all of the trauma and the pain at the moment. I don't think I'm going to say the words of the events that occurred because I don't, I don't need to, and I don't want to, um, I think we're all pretty sensitive in this space. And so I don't need to put that in while you're having your morning coffee. But I will say that I learned firsthand the depth of pain that trauma can create inside of you. And I learned firsthand that a lot of, if not all, we're getting better now. Cause this was 2019 when I was diagnosed with complex PTSD, uh, 2018, sorry, we're getting better now. how unequipped and actually quite harmful a lot of the mainstream advice is. And so when I was diagnosed with complex PTSD, I'd been an entrepreneur for most of my life, really, but let's just say a good five full time years. And I was transitioning into the wellness space. I was a yoga teacher. Um, then I became a yoga therapist and. I was studying trauma healing while building this yoga, kind of a little bit of coaching business at the time. And it was, uh, Oh my God. Have you, have you been in the coaching world and you know, you're like, you've done the courses and so, and they tell you this is how to build your six or seven figure business and you go in and you're like, okay, cool. This is going to be like, cool. You know, the, that's, that's just that, that's how you do it. And, and then you, you realize it's not at all like that it's really hard. actually you have to put in some work. You can't just like say an affirmation and light a candle and it happens, or like orgasm your way there, like Exactly right. And, you know, I kind of fell into that space and I came, I fell in, I think because of my own trauma, um, looking for somebody to like, tell me how to. Just tell me what to do and to get to my dreams, right? Just tell me, just give me the way. And I was so exhausted and burnt out. I had the group program that I did sold out, did a great job, crushed it, made my way to the six figure business and the 20 K months and all that stuff and the full time coaching thing, and I'm raising my prices, doubling them each month. Made it, did it. Lost my voice doing it. Um, burnt out doing it, even though I promised myself when I left, um, for the finance realm, because I used to work in finance, I promised I'd never burn myself out. Um, it happened though, and I was exhausted and I was hitting that dark place that I'd been in that reminded me of where I was when I was very much in the dark. Traumatized from prior experiences. And I was one day I was like in the shower, I was basically about to quit and go apply for jobs. So quit entrepreneurship, go apply for some job. And I, I remember kind of being in the shower and being like, well, this is dark. This is, this is not good. This is bad. Um, I'm not okay. And the only tool that I know how to use to get me out of this level of Despair is one of my trauma healing tools, my integrative somatic trauma healing tools, their body based trauma healing tools. I use that tool, got out of the shower. Now I have a clear headedness. I sat down at my laptop and I thought, wait a second, what if I just use that to build the business? If I know my body has a lot of innate wisdom, why wouldn't I just use its innate wisdom? If I know it's got this connection with other people, with greater source, um, with greater information, if it's literally inside of my cells, why wouldn't I just use that information? Why wouldn't I just learn how to read my body's compass to success instead of try to figure out somebody else's and body based business, which is my main methodology and program. Love that. There is so much depth here to your story and just the fact that you are tuning into the wisdom of your own body and not. You know what everyone else says you should do following every trend out there, trying to copy everyone else's secret sauce. Like that is the secret to building a prosperous and an aligned business. Right. And I'm so grateful and glad and just overjoyed that there's someone teaching this to business owners, because it's so necessary and. We are in an era where we have to be in touch with our own flow and our own wisdom and our own alignment and figure out what works for us because there is no safe marketing strategy or sales strategy or process. It's all based on like, I love to call it intuitive marketing, like just listening to what comes up and feeling okay. Putting it out there and not having to worry about is the market research aligned and is this aligned with my strategy and like what content does this fall into? And like, you know, just overthinking all the things, like there is such a space for us just to be in our flow. Um, so I'd love to hear a bit more from you about shame and trauma and we'll just, let's focus on shame. Let's really narrow it down. And like where, where does shame show up in the body? How does it. Block us from actually achieving the things that we set out to do. Like we have all these visions on our vision board and then shame pops up and. We just, you know, we never actually reach any of them. So how do you see this? Yeah. Uh, I want to hone in if that's okay, really specifically on what you said around intuitive marketing, because I'm assuming lovely listeners that you guys are here because. You align with that idea that there is an, there is a innate value in your intuition and you're all probably trying to tap into that intuition and an act on it and have a heightened sense of intuition because you know that that's going to be an effective way to get towards your goals and dreams. Right? So. Specifically around that, if I've experienced any level of trauma, trauma is anything that is too much, too soon, too often, or too alone. You're too alone. You can't, you can't process the experience and integrate it in that very moment because it's too much, too soon, too often. You're too alone. You're not, you don't have enough support to do so. And. If I have experienced any type of trauma around my relationship with myself, my relationship with others, my relationship with money, my relationship with communication, my relationship with intuition, then your body not only is Can it default to shame very easily? And I'll explain why in a second shame being that feeling of there's something wrong with me. Let's be really clear. Shame is a feeling of there's something innately wrong with me and the way that I want to do things. So we internalize shame for many, many different reasons, and I can go into them, but it feels like this feeling of. Uh, there's something wrong. It often manifests as procrastination, feeling heavy, feeling, um, like, like there's just something off. It manifests a lot as anxiety. You're trying to like figure something out in order to fix something. Cause it feels like something's wrong. It manifests a lot as in, in a critic. If I can just criticize myself enough, then I'll be right. It manifests a lot. assessing other people. If they're wrong, then I don't have to deal with the fact that I feel like I'm wrong. It matters as just taking a really like the freeze nervous system response. We can go into that as well if we like, but it's that, it's that shutdown. It's I just want to lay in bed. I don't really want to do anything. Every single task in business feels momentous and particularly Shame is not only going to cut you off with your innate body wisdom, because you're internalized that there's something wrong. So if there's something wrong with me, it wouldn't be safe or, or smart for my body access to my intuition that that doesn't make sense. So it wouldn't do that. It's going to look to other people, not your own. It's going to copy other people, you know, stand out. Cause you're actually just copying. Um, you may not even realize that you're copying the shame is. Like foggy glasses, you cannot see it. You cannot see it in yourself. You need the support of somebody else to see it. And we can talk about the nervous system reason behind that as well, but it's going to impact you and it's particularly going to impact you. And I think this is why it's important to have this conversation around money because money, not only is it a neutral energy. Therefore, it's really easy to put shame on. It's also intangible, really easy to put shame on too. It is where business becomes profitable and where a lot of us. Experience a sense of success or satisfaction. We do need money. Money is what makes business occur. Business is an exchange of goods and services. Sometimes that's money and shame. When your nervous system is saturated in shame, you have a very deep shame body. It is the most repelling thing to another individual. We will. Our primal body will literally do anything just to avoid shame. Experiencing shame. It is like moldy chicken that has been in the fridge for six weeks because you left it there while you went away. We will do anything. And so if I'm holding shame about my service or about the way that I communicate myself or about the way I look, it's going to be very difficult to have a, Enough know, and like, and trust, and connection with another individual, whether that is through writing copy or whether that is through a sales call, in order for their nervous system to feel pulled to yours. Hmm. They're going to feel repelled. They're not going to know why you're not going to know why your copy doesn't convert. It's going to look correct. It's going to, it's going to tick the boxes, but it repels because it's written from shame. And the other person's nervous system can feel that and says, Oh, there's something like not right about this. This person must be wrong. They think that they're wrong. They think that there's something wrong with them. Therefore, there must be something wrong with them. Therefore it's, I, I should not hang out with this person because I'm going to be put in the tribe of wrong people and that's not going to be good for my safety. Am I making sense? Yeah. And I mean, isn't that amazing how we, we self sabotage in that way by not looking at the things that we're shameful about, like, uh, like body shaming or monetary shaming or not feeling like our service is good enough to step into, you know, This new way of charging or feeling like we're charging too much. You know, we put shame or we attach it to all of these different things. And we ultimately, and like, we end up self sabotaging your entire sales process. Yeah. The whole thing from, from beginning to end. So what do you see working with your clients? Like what, if someone has shame in the body, right. And they are in the process of self sabotaging, they might not know that they're self sabotaging, but they're not getting the results they're looking for. Like they aren't booked out, they have no income coming in. They're doing all the things, you know, they're posting continuously. They're setting up their newsletters, they're blogging, they're doing all that, they're ticking all those boxes, but they're not seeing the results. Like how would you. What are the steps to first of all, figure out what the shame is, like where it's like house and what, how it's actually manifesting and then to actually deal with it. Like, I mean, obviously we can't repress it. We can't just pretend it's not there. Like there needs to be a space for it to. We kind of just allow it to be, but how do we process it? How do we move it through the body, move it through the cells? Because ultimately releasing it from the cells of the body, that is the art of embodiment that is allowing yourself to take up more space. So what do you, what do you recommend to your clients? There's so many things that we can do, but I'm going to share, I'm going to kind of myth bust. I think I'm going to see if I can just kind of cut through some of the really, really harmful Myths about shame healing that a lot of other trauma informed or embodiment practitioners are sharing. Uh, you know, I come, I work with a lot of embodiment practitioners. I work with a lot of people in the wellness industry and they often come to me and they're like, you know, Sheridan, I've studied this for years. I should know what I'm doing. I should be able to see this in myself. And a lot of us end up actually having shame around the fact that we're struggling with something. And. If that is you, like you're an astrologist or you're a human design embodiment, or you're a, uh, you used to be a yoga teacher, or maybe you're a therapist and you have a little bit of a should around, I should be able to deal with this. I want us to all remember that shame is the most dysregulating emotion. Experience to the nervous system. And we all experience it. It is a socialized emotion, which means it's something that humans have created and kind of put onto other humans because it helps us modify our behaviors in a way that is ethically and morally supportive to the community. It gets leaky though. Because it's actually helpful for the community that we're not, um, lazy. It's helpful for the community to have a value of activeness because the tribe, if we go all the way back, we're going all the way back to primal stuff right now, the tribe needs humans who are willing to exert energy to get food, water, shelter, right? So it is beneficial for the tribe to shame laziness because it actually molds Our energy and says, okay, we're going to all going to contribute. That's, that's helpful. It's not helpful. When I look at like my arm, like I had a little bit of fat underneath my arm and I look at that and I go, well, I'm lazy because I faddle my arm. That's not helpful. It's not helpful. I want to say, well, I, you know, I'm a projector and human design. I don't like to work a lot of hours. It's not helpful when I shame the fact that my body isn't made to build things all day. So what we need to understand as well is because shame is so dysregulating, it can send us straight into a freeze response. Your body believes I'm wrong. I'm not safe. I'm not loved. Play dead. Which means that. The very, one of the very best ways to, to see it or to even be able to understand that it's there is you need another person's nervous system. You need to be in conversation with somebody sometimes even just stepping into a container where your body knows, Oh, if I have a bad day, I have a coach to reach out to just stepping into it. You start to see more things because when you are looking at yourself, you just can't See it. Your body doesn't have the capacity to hold and experience the shame in the nervous system. So it will not let you see it because it would be so much that you would go into a dorsal vagal shutdown. So we have to understand it is not a fallacy in you. That's your shame body talking. If you don't see it in yourself, if you don't see how it's affecting you, you're functioning as a normal human being and your, your nervous system needs another nervous system that says, it's okay. We haven't dealt with this before, but I got you. Um, so that's number one before I go into others and I just do a tangent thoughts. I love this. I mean, it's come up a lot in group coaching spaces and in one on one spaces, um, where you know, you're, you're in you, you're in your business, you're going about like along your, in your day doing your thing. And suddenly where you in that intimate space. It's like everything just cracks open and you start to see all these different layers of things that you haven't been actually dealing with and it starts to reveal itself as to, okay, these are the energetic, I don't want to call it an energetic block because shame's not really, it deserves its place, but it does stop us from. You know, reaching, booking out, you know, making money, all these things that we are in business for, like, we didn't start a business to be hard to have fun or that's part of it. But, you know, like a part of it is we have to support ourselves. And I understand how having that nervous system. Which, is that what you would call like the mirror effect? Like you see whatever's going on inside of you mirrored in others and it triggers you? That is one thing that can happen that when two nervous systems are incoherent with each other. Yeah, but it's not necessarily the effect that creates the safe space, right? It's when two nervous systems are incoherent, that things like the mirror effect can occur. That help the other, like one of the nervous systems feel safe and seen and that, Oh, there's another person who sees me, it's safe to be seen in this way. I could give a little bit more. Yes. Yes. You know, this is, and it's such a beautiful process because, um, like one thing I've noticed over the last year and it's something that I've been sitting with for quite a while is I used to just write website copy for clients. And now I've created this holistic experience where it's kind of, it feels like a bubble, right? So energetically I stated like it's a space for your true purpose, your true story to unveil itself. And when it first started happening, it was like, Oh my gosh, like what is going on? Because suddenly clients were going through like the absolute most, right? Some of them were having absolute breakdowns and we would rewrite the copy like two, three, four times. Would like mold into something that is just eventually so aligned. But when it first started happening, I was like, okay, I've seen that this process is going to happen and now it's happening and it's just mind boggling to actually see it in real life. But when all those layers of shame and all those limitations and those blocks start to dissolve and for someone to see. Their true capability reflected back at them and to actually step into a brand story that is theirs without having to water down or pay something on top. That's not authentic or follow everyone else's like a joke and call it like a secret sauce, but you try and take everybody else's secret sauce, mush it together, and then you say it's yours. And it's, I mean, the, the universe works in energy and consciousness. And if you're putting something out there, that's not yours. Energetically, that is going to be followed by someone, even if you can't see it on the surface level. Yes, and what you're talking about is, is nervous system congruent. So if when I teach shameless sales, right, and there are three pillars to shameless sales. And if you guys want to do shameless sale, like, if you want to create a sale that is effective and magnetic, returning from repulsed to magnetic, you need to do three things. One, you need to have clarity, two, you need to have confidence and three, you need to have congruence. And what you're describing is. Is that congruence it's my prime, a primal body is always communicating. It's my primal body, my lived experience, my wisdom. It needs to be the exact same thing of what I am articulating to the client and inviting them to buy into. I have to be congruent even with my prices. I can't just raise my prices. Cause my coach told me to, and the market tells me to, I need to I need to, in every cell of my body, understand why that is legitimate. I need to be so deeply sold on it that it is an, it is like, if I, when I say yes, that's 10, 000, it is like I'm saying, yes, that is a teacup. It needs to be of that level of neutrality to become magnetic because it needs to be congruent. Otherwise, people are going to feel like a little bit of icky weirdness around it. And their, and their, and their nervous system is going to go, why this person being weird What, what, what is there that I do not understand? I don't, I'm not giving them my money. There's something off. I don't understand something. There's something in the dark. There's something that doesn't quite add up. This is, I don't know. I'm going to, I'll let them know. I actually, I spoke about this in the last call of my group coaching program. That's, um, I teach it as like embodiment of your brand story. Right. And I've seen it for so many years on social media. And it drives me insane because like someone will say, I'm going to teach you how to build a six figure business, or I'm going to teach you how to hit 10 K months. So I'm going to teach you how to like streamline your marketing and have the best plan ever. But they're not doing that within their own business. Like they've never had a six K figure month. They've never hit 10 figures. They've never like their marketing isn't working, but we think that's what people want. So we curate the story for them. And then it falls flat and it doesn't work and it doesn't sell, you know, so having that congruence with what you say and what you're actually experiencing and living and what is allowing itself to infuse into both your internal and your external world. It's so, so important. Yeah. And wouldn't it be so much quicker, so much more profitable and so much easier for everyone. If we stripped the shame from the shame, buddy, the shape, there's a shame buddy. That's telling them I have to give these people this specific result because that's the result that, that other people are doing. And there's space for market research. I like market research. I think it's good. I like, I want people with shame is also removed through connection and we gain clarity about how to serve our community through. Through connection and through actually leading in a lot of what I teach inside of shameless sales is how to navigate nose so that you can kind of understand the individual behind the no, and really understand, Oh, how do I connect with them? How do I serve them? Okay. Well, it's, this is a no. What about that is a no and how do I, how do I meet them there so that I can support them. And so it's a little bit different to like manipulating, but what you're talking about is like, it's like, how much easier would it be everyone if we all just took a couple of minutes a day to not identify with our shame body. Get congruent with what it is that we actually can teach. That imposter syndrome doesn't matter. Imposter syndrome doesn't exist when you're congruent. You're confident in what you do. You know exactly, and you're clear. I am good at this. I have less experience with that. It is not about better or worse. This is who I am good at teaching. This is, I have less experience. I'm not as good at that. I would recommend you somebody else. Kit, click, congruent, clean energy. So much easier to make money from that space. Instead of trying to, instead of listening to the shoulds in your mind that you, that you're blind to, because you're, you haven't energetically and physically and somatically learned to disassociate from that. They not disassociate, detach from the shame body. Yes. Yes. So if someone is, for instance, in that space where they're acknowledging, okay, I know that I have shame in X, Y, and Z, what steps would they then take to move that shame through the body? Like, obviously it's not just like, I am not shameful, light a candle, done. Like, what is the, yeah, you can dive into that a bit. Yeah, absolutely. I think there were three big C's. I actually have a podcast episode on this that maybe we can link to because it's 30 minutes long and it goes into these in a much more depth. Uh, I'm going to give you what not to do, and I'm going to give you three, two no's and three yes's. First no, don't go into it. Shame is because it's not a, because it's a socialized emotion, it has a different biochemical process inside of this, your nervous system. If I go into the shame, if I kind of like focus on feeling it in my body, uh, which a lot of, a lot of body embodiment practitioners may encourage you when they have less experience. What I will experience is a nervous system shutdown. Whatever I focus on will grow. And because shame doesn't have the same completion process as. Other biochemical emotions will shut, you'll shut down, you'll end up collapsed, meaning you'll end up feeling heavy. You'll end up maybe going to sleep. Uh, your digestion will slow. Uh, you have trouble getting motivated for a couple of days. It's not a very pleasant place to be. And you feel that heavy energy. It feels hopeless. Um, so don't go into it. Instead, see if you can witness it, um, without buying into its story. So we're just observing it, uh, observational type meditations and awareness practices can be this it's, it's very much the active, uh, I noticed I'm having a thought, uh, I noticed that shame is telling me this. See if we can almost. Bring ourselves into the seat of the observer and don't negotiate with it. Shame will tell you you're a bad person. And, uh, I don't have enough evidence to tell you that you're not, not to convince shame. I can tell you, I can tell you sweet things all day. You can listen to the meditations. We don't need to convince it that we are good. We need to have enough space to be able to witness it with love and care and compassion, compassion and validation and love, like really genuine loving awareness is what neutralizes shame. There's a part of us. We all have it. It's literally inside of our nervous systems and has been for generations. There's a part of us that thinks that we're not We're not that good, but it actually might say some kind of mean things about us. Good. Congratulations. You're a human being. Nothing wrong with it. Don't shame it. Don't negotiate with it. Say, yeah, I see you. I see you. It makes sense that you're there. It makes sense that you show up. Hi. Hi, my love. Hi human. Um, Have compassion for it celebrated. If you can celebrate as much as you can celebrate everything that you can. Um, the energy of celebration and the energy of compassion is the antidote to shame. It propels us upwards. It takes us into gratitude. It takes us into love. It takes us into all of those, you know, if you're into vibration on some energy and not only do they just feel better and are they more regulating to the nervous system, but it propels us upwards in that energetic scale. If that's your thing, if it's not. Don't worry. It wasn't my thing for a really long time. It's not really my thing a lot now, but it can be helpful to know. And the third C is connect, connect with other people. Shame. Brené Brown talks about this, but shame thrives when it is the moldy chicken in the back of the fridge and it gets moldier and it gets harder to look at when you don't look at it. But if you find courage with your friends to say, I have this thing that I'm so embarrassed about. And I think that there's something really wrong with me for thinking this, but I just, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to say it and I need you to tell me that I'm not crazy. And immediately that other nervous system just to hold that thing with you. Like you felt that, right? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, definitely. And it's, I love that you have put it in this way because so often you've, well, I, I know I've heard that a lot of the time we're walking this path is like, just be with us, sit with it, embrace it, allow it to infuse every cell of your being. You know, that's what integration is, but it's true. Then it grows and it becomes overwhelming. And before you know it, it's just deliberate, deliberate, deliberating, debilitating, debilitating. Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think. Good work. Okay. So to, to use like a practical example, so for instance, I know a lot of women within my space and within my community have a lot of shame around the body. Right. So wait, what we look like, all these things, like there's so much social pressure for how we feel we need to look. But then social media comes in, it's like, Oh, in order to market your business, you need to be taking videos every day. You need to be having like photos taken. You need to do like on stories daily. Like what, what would you say, just as like one example, because I mean, I could go into like a million here. How would someone navigate that space? So they want to show up, but they don't have the courage or the capability because they're just like, Oh, but if I jump onto stories, people are just going to, you know, think I'm fast, even if I'm talking about the most incredible thing, or they're going to be looking at the lines under my eyes or the bags under my eyes, because I've been up all night to the kids and I haven't stepped or, you know, I can go on, you know what I mean? Yeah. So if I had somebody who came to me, let's say just in a one on one coaching and they, they asked me that question, I would move them through my method called body based business, which goes like this. Number one, we make sure that we're coming from a regulated space. So if we're coming and we're just like in that, I can't, I can't, I can't is shame. It's hopelessness. It's in a docile, vagal shutdown. If I can't, the immediate thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to help them use celebration, compassion, or just connection and sharing maybe some somatic tools to become a better person. She, or, or he who observes the shame instead of she or he who is the shame we're going to regulate our system and we're going to return to a place of, I'm experiencing this and I can number one, we regulate number two, we, that's when we can do larger shame healing. And I would get really curious. I don't find it very helpful all of the time to try and figure out. Where the shame came from, it can be helpful when it is validating. A lot of people spend a lot of time trying to figure out the moment that it occurred in order to heal it. Uh, I understand that. We need to choose how we spend our resources. I'm less interested in that moment. I'm more interested in, okay, what needs to happen in this moment to create something new. Mm. And a lot of my healing sessions are quite lighthearted because of that. And people really enjoy working with me because the, the healing isn't so heavy. It, it's quite soft and loving. Mm. And we smile and we joke and, and, and it's nice. So I would do a, some somatic healing around that just to see if there's any. Heaviness in the body that we can release, and I would also be looking at what beliefs are have informed, especially around. Looks, you know, when I lost my hair, I never had hair and I always had to figure out like, okay, so how can I be feminine if I don't have hair? And like, am I, am I sick? Am I ill? Am I lucky to be loved? And I would do a lot of, I found it very supportive to do a lot of belief work. What did you, what did you learn? What it is to be successful? What does it, What does it mean to look healthy? What does it mean to look professional? These are all beliefs that we create and that society gives us. And they're not always that helpful. And so we would need to look at, okay, well, what are the new beliefs that we're going to embody? And here we can make a decision because for some people. Especially when we're building a shame free business, a lot of that is about doing what is the most loving and supportive for you that meets your business objectives and not making yourself wrong about it. So if I need to market my business, the objective is getting it in front of eyeballs so that I can sell, create a profit. Right. I don't need to do Instagram stories for that. There are a thousand ways. What I do need to do is pick the one that meets me where I am today. Do it unapologetically and execute it because I love it. So we need to build businesses and this is what's different about body based businesses that we address. Okay. Where am I energetically? Where is my body? What does my nervous system need to actually show up and do the business actions with effortlessness? Great. It needs these parameters. Um, there are certain things that I'm willing to heal or to change or that I want to grow within myself, such as maybe I do want to feel more confident on camera and I'm willing to put energy into that. Maybe I'm just not right now. Cause this is hard. I got like kids to look after or something. I don't know myself. I just, I'm doing jujitsu and I would rather put my energy into learning jujitsu at the same time. I just don't want to. And so instead, how can I, Figure out what my limitations are and now how can I anchor into that and body that and take action in the business strategy. How does my marketing sales and business structure, how are they formed around my nervous system needs based on the way that my nervous system experiences life, not the way that I want it to. I love that shaping your business according to where your limitations are at every moment, every single moment. And it will change. And, and that's the way that your body wants to do business right now. And it will be profitable because you're made to be wealthy. I love this. I absolutely love this. And you just, the way you put it and the way you word it and the way you just anchor it in, it just, it makes so much sense. I'm glad. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you. Um, is it, or do you have any final thoughts or any takeaways for listeners or a big topic at a big question? I think I've just given you guys like so much information to, to, to, to nibble on. I'm going to refrain because I think there's a lot to process here and, uh, you know, we'll have to come back another day and do like the follow up of how'd you go. So I will say trust. I want, no, I'm actually just going to leave it because I think, you know, if you need to like, go back and listen, not going to overwhelm it, but I will say like, there's nothing that you can do is wrong. Even as you go through it, you're like, how do I apply these steps in my life? Whatever, whatever your body tells you to do right now, wherever you feel like there's a little bit of curiosity, follow that curiosity and make it enough. If that means that you never listen to anything else. Awesome. Cool. That's enough. Great. You did a good job. If it means that you go back and you listen, you take notes and you implement everything and then you message us both and tell us exactly what you did in your, your little experience. Amazing. We cannot wait. Follow your innate curiosity and intuition. Yes. Yes. I think that's the best advice you could give anyone. In all of life, right? Exactly. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you for being here and for holding space for this conversation. It is, I mean, I'm sure there's so much depth that we could dive into and it's, you know, to jump into it in like a short podcast episode, but you've already, I mean, reshaped certain things for me that I've heard. For a lot like a long time. So thank you. Can I ask you, can I ask which ones? It was mostly that thing of, of be with it, you know, it's like they teach that as an embodiment tool, as a trauma tool, as a tool to deal with, you know, pain and shame and all these emotions that we have to navigate in these difficult experiences, like just lean into it, don't lean away from it. And what you said makes like so much sense because the more we lean into it, the more the bigger we make it. So thank you for that. Cause yeah, I've never, I've never thought about it like that. I have tingles. Cause if I'm completely honest, when I learned that everything changed and all of my one on one sessions changed, they, they even used to feel quite heavy. And now, and people started getting better results because that is what's taught. To most beginner, if not intermediate practitioners. And so it's what's propagated and it's so harmful if it's like, if there's anything that I could just implant in every practitioner's brain and just said, do not make your clients do that. It is not helpful. And it also makes your job harder. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, isn't that, that's exactly what we get taught, you know, we have to do the work. And the work means like leaning into the shadows and embracing the shadows and like bringing everything to light. And like I first realized this years ago when I, I healing doesn't need to be hard. No, it's don't need to make it hard. It. Just stepping into something new and it's, and there's a still making space for everything, obviously not like repressing it. I mean, like it doesn't exist because it does, but not being like, Oh, I'm going to embrace it with all that I have, because that's what I, you know, the best way to move through it. Yeah. You get it? 100%. Yeah. Thank, I'm happy that you get it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having this conversation with us and I'm gonna link below, um, your details if anyone wants to get in touch with you. And I think there was a podcast episode you mentioned with the Mm-Hmm. Like diving into depth a little bit more. So I'm gonna link that as well. Yeah, Paul, I'll send that to you. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Whispers in my hair. Whatcha gonna do? You know what they say, don't brag about what you have Be careful and be humble Otherwise you should be ready to stumble You know what they say, don't you have confidence? Why can't you live confidently? Keep walk on your way, don't look back It's your own way Even when you fall, don't look back The truth is Transcription by ESO. Translation by Nobody knows, no Cause it's only yours, yours Yeah, yeah Light Beliefs But when you feel like giving up, remember Keep walking your way, don't look back Even when you fall, don't let me fall, Nobody knows, nobody knows Cause it's only yours, only yours Yeah, yeah, oh